Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 2:38 pm Post subject:
RA2: Chaos Theory - Mod Ideas for your perusal
Subject description: Nothing much to offer, but your comments would be appreciated
I hope I posted this in the right section in the forums. I went with the first rule that:
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- Mods posted here must not be publicly downloadable in the internet, unless they follow our rules about the usage of 3rd party resources.
And thus, I'm going with the assumption that unpublished/undeveloped/storyboard mod ideas are accepted here. If I'm wrong, do let me know and my humble apologies in advance.
I'm just sharing a "service pack" idea I've been toying around with some time ago, the first idea I've ever posted to any online community. I have no intention of developing a mod with these ideas (much as I would love to pick up the trade of TS/RA2/YR modding, stuff happening IRL prevents me from commiting myself to the modding scene). I thought that I'd just share what I have rolling around in my head. There is a possibility I might develop this into a mod, but not right now.
This is what I originally posted back on CNCNZ's forum:
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Essentially, things will kick off at the end of Yuri's Revenge. The tentative title for the first of 6 parts (going from RA to TW) is Red Alert: Chaos Theory. It'll be an RTS and a mod for Tiberium Wars (I kinda like the engine, though I do know the RA3 engine looks cooler and stuff). Here's the intro summary I wrote:
"The Allies have succeeded in defeating Yuri's psychic forces with the aid of the Soviet Union. A new lasting peace treaty was formed between both factions in the wake of Yuri's defeat, with both President Dugan and Premier Romanov pledging to collaborate and rebuild all that was destroyed in the long war. Unfortunately for them, Yuri's legacy yet lives on in the form of his most promising disciple, Alastor. Bent on freeing his master and continuing where they have left off, Alastor leads a new legion of fanatical psychic warriors against the combined might of the Allies and Soviets."
I must apologize in advance, though, as some elements of Chaos Theory may or may not be heavily influenced by Mental Omega's plot and units, and even a wee bit from Twisted Insurrection. These will be changed if anyone has some better suggestions to offer. The plot is also still in prototype stage, so that's also open for discussion.
There will be three major factions duking it out: the Allies, specializing in high tech, high quality units; the Soviets with superior firepower and now some added flexibility (due to a faltering economy); and the Psychic Legion that rose from the ashes of Yuri's Psychic Army, specializing in stealth, psionics and advanced weapons tech.
Gameplay's going to be the usual C&C fare: build bases, mine ore, build an army, win. It's going to employ the RA3 system where (almost) every unit gets a special ability, and there will be support powers available to each faction and are faction specific (like the Top Secret Protocols in RA3, but available to the player after building specific structures like in C&C3; they also cost cash to use). Each faction also has sub-factions that add new units, buildings and/or support powers, much like Kane's Wrath. I don't think there's gonna be any new features to add, but again this idea of mine is still in its "early alpha" stages so comments are most welcome.
Please note that it doesn't necessarily have to be the TW engine. Any engine will do, so long as the ideas are there, and if it's possible to implement the mechanics.
Again, I offer my humblest apologies to the MO and TI teams for some of the plagiarized ideas. As a reminder, everything in here is not finalized; these are merely ideas of my own "what-if" scenario (and ideas are bulletproof! LOL).
Someone on CNCNZ offered some suggestions:
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Looks liike a lot, and I'm more hten willing to help you develo this into a more workable proposal, but you've just fallen into one of the mosrt common traps I've seen.
People Detail everything they want, everything, and althoguh it's cool to see what you;ve come up with, ask yourself, how much of what you just wrote up has been done before? what units behave teh same?
What is differnt?
He's right; look at the document and you'll find a HUGE *** list of units and stuff. Hence the dude above's (username GeneralJist) remark on detailing everything they want. Do bear with me; I haven't the time to port them into a more user-friendly format for reading.
EDIT: So to be frank there isn't really much originality going on here, nor are there spiffy screens to show, since this is not a mod-in-development, but merely a set of ideas for your perusal. As I've seen in quite a number of mod discussion posts, the emphasis on showcasing public mods are:
1. screenshots that show off what's been going on
2. a very detailed, well thought-of plot and gameplay mechanics
Which I lack at the moment. But rest assured, I'll try and add a few bits and pieces here and keep the ball rolling (if it was rolling in the first place, eep) when time permits.
At any rate, everything here is up for the forum's scrutiny. Your comments would be greatly appreciated. It might prove to be useful in the near future, who knows? That's just me being optimistic.
So thanks for those viewing and have a pleasant week!
If your going for an RA3 style, but are using the last Sage engine, why not RA3? outside of being locked into three faction anything, you can run most of your idea's in the post?
If your going for an RA3 style, but are using the last Sage engine, why not RA3? outside of being locked into three faction anything, you can run most of your idea's in the post?
But I have not worked on RA3 in a year or so, and there is not many RA3 modders since Paradox sank under it's own weight.
Just something to think about.
That's fine, Zombolt. At any rate this is just a compilation of ideas that I had based on my own story concepts and the amazing ideas from the MO and TI team (which, I reiterate, are subject to change/considered placeholders for better/more original ideas).
Feel free to share your opinions. I personally want to hear from the rest of the community what they might think of this, how they'd implement it, the look and feel of the game, etc. It doesn't really need to be developed as a mod unless someone wants to.
Well I did have a few idea's for a full Yuri faction that also morrowed idea's from YR mods, but since I can't 3d model for RA3, I was using assets from other sources(like maldin, other C&C's and public releases)
If you think you want to work on RA3, I can attempt to help, as well a s afew other people here _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
I'd love to work on a mod, but time is not on my side atm
Hopefully, if there are people who are willing to give it a shot (mostly as an experiment at first), and I do make some time after finishing my last semester in uni, then why the heck not? That'd be pretty cool
Of course, before we can get renders, SHPs, screenies and what-have-you posted, the first bit is to iron out what I have here and make it more workable in a game. Hence, the reason why I shared it here.
I didn't get much attention from the CNCNZ community, which was rather disappointing (save GeneralJist's comment), so I thought maybe here there'd be those who would gladly give their two-cents worth regarding my ideas. Perhaps then it could even be fleshed out as a mod, who knows?
As I mentioned in my first post, I have no knowledge whatsoever in modding or modelling, and I honestly don't know if I would be willing to dabble in that. I might change my mind later on, but for the most part I don't mind just being part of the creative team where the plot is concerned. Aesthetics, I leave to the whims of the modelling team based on their imagined designs (but of course it's all subject to debate).
In the meantime, when I have a little bit more free time, I'll post some backstory to the mod idea. We'll see how it goes from there.
Again, many many thanks Zombolt!
UPDATE:
For anyone who might want to ask, no there won't be special playable subfactions like how MO and Generals does it. Sure, there are special subfactions available for each side, as you can see in the master document, but it follows the original RA2 pattern (subfactions give special faction-specific units only). However, an addition to this would be that each subfaction has specific global bonuses that they give to the player, i.e. faster build times, stronger units, etc.
This is also subject to change, mind you.
Another important thing to note here is unit versatility. Sure, you can tank spam and blob your way to victory thanks to your strong economy. But I emphasize the importance of unit capabilities versus other units in different situations. For example, Apocs are pretty damn tough with their twin cannons and their missiles to engage air units, but they aren't unbeatable. So even if you had a whole pile of Apocs trundling to your enemy's doorstep, they can easily take you out with strategic micromanaged assaults, support powers, superweapons, what have you. In fact, I aim to 'balance' units so that no one units is too OP. This is easier said than done, of course, so feedback is welcome. _________________ Red Alert 2: Chaos Theory - Ideas in progress - Feedback appreciated! QUICK_EDIT
Time is on no ones side. If Valve hadn't bludged up the idea, this would be the time for payed modding, but a 75% cut and selling $400 for a check is not cool man.(if it wasn't then they could have writen there rules clearer)
Two, do you even know what engine you want this mod on?
Three Are you just trying to be an Idea's man, and have someone else make this mod out of what? pitty? Why would anyone make your mod when they could make there mod? a write up is nice, but Why? _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
I was expecting that last part, haha. But thank you for your frankness, nonetheless.
Truth is, I can't really justify my reasons. I'm aware that people would rather work on ideas of their own and not so much on another's, unless they specifically ask for assistance or if they voluntarily join a project. And just posting ideas here and being an "ideas man" while not really devoting any time to create and showcase the idea you have might seem like nothing.
Really, I don't mind just being an "ideas man". I can still contribute something at least, even if it might not be the best of suggestions. Anything helps, I believe, because you'll never know what a person might need at a given time. But if you disagree with that, then I respect your opinion. No real need to belittle others over different views, right?
And regrettably I'm really not sure which engine would be best suited for this mod. Between TW and RA3 I choose TW; there's a certain quality to it, even though RA3 shines in terms of graphical awesomeness. Unless of course, the TW engine has limitations that would hinder the implementation of some of Chaos Theory's mechanics.
You're also right about the time part; I just have to manage my time better and things will work out the way I want them to.
At any rate, the reason I posted this here is to get your general feedback. Mayhaps one day I might end up making a mod, who knows? And the feedback I receive here would ultimately help me in that direction. Or maybe it might help some other fledgling modder to develop his ideas. If there isn't interest, then I can't really do much about it - unless I/someone else seriously consider(s) making this a mod (which atm, I have no real intention to).
Much to consider...
PS: Oh no, I'm not asking anyone to make this a mod out of pity's sake. That's just wrong. If anyone wants to turn this into a working mod, by all means go right on ahead; I would love to be part of the process and learn a thing or two as well. If not, I'd be disappointed, but I'm not gonna fret about it. Life goes on anyhoo. _________________ Red Alert 2: Chaos Theory - Ideas in progress - Feedback appreciated! QUICK_EDIT
Well if you want to learn modding that bad, you can start start with a small mod. I have a few mod packs in RA3 with full newbie code you can futz with, along with Paradox.
On the TW side, you can mess with Maldin's mods or Goland's Titan, just start small, like making something that doesn't shoot air fire at planes or something : D
And I try to be straight edge with people, but I sometimes let my salt get the better of me. _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
I'll consider that Zombolt, thank you just send the links my way in a PM or just post it here, and I'll take a gander. Who knows, at the end of the day I might actually end up dabbling in modding thanks to your encouragement!
Anyway, don't worry about going with a "straight edge with people"; brutal honesty (which is polite, of course) is sometimes needed to get one's point across. We do our best anyways. So thank you very very much for your comments _________________ Red Alert 2: Chaos Theory - Ideas in progress - Feedback appreciated! QUICK_EDIT
So, you're aiming for RA3 / TW or RA2? or anything that could help you?
If you're aiming for the latests games, I can't do much for you, cuz I barely know how to render buildings for RA2, it will take me a lot of time before I can make good mode for the 3D games... or a good texture.
But on the other hand, if you want to be an "ideas man" or something else, and you know how to draw, maybe I could use your help. From time to time, I do need some bizarre ideas for buildings or any other stuff, and of course, if you have patience and lots of wishes to make a project of your own, I can return the favour (or atleast try). _________________
Creator of Shattered Paradise .
ORA Discord https://discordapp.com/invite/tuhp9m6 , SP Discord https://discord.gg/hk428Wk QUICK_EDIT
So, you're aiming for RA3 / TW or RA2? or anything that could help you?
If you're aiming for the latests games, I can't do much for you, cuz I barely know how to render buildings for RA2, it will take me a lot of time before I can make good mode for the 3D games... or a good texture.
But on the other hand, if you want to be an "ideas man" or something else, and you know how to draw, maybe I could use your help. From time to time, I do need some bizarre ideas for buildings or any other stuff, and of course, if you have patience and lots of wishes to make a project of your own, I can return the favour (or atleast try).
Sounds good. I'd be honored to help out where I can I can't really draw too well, and I lack a scanner or a digital tablet, but hey whatever I can roll with pen and paper and a phone camera too! Hahaha! xD
I'll come by here as often as I can, so if you need anything feel free to PM me
At any rate, the ideas here are still subject to change. I've seen from the EASB Hour mod that it's possible to implement support powers in RA2, although I'd like to know, are they using Ares or NP or something else entirely? But ideally, my vision is to put it in TW or RA3 since the mechanics work better there.
you could use a Image editor, like Gimp or Photoshop _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
Well, you can also check Openra, they're implementing some interesting mechanics that RA2 or TS doesn't have, and I supose it's easier to code than TW or RA3, of course, please do consider that last thing I said heresy, because I haven't moded TW or RA3, ever.
And yeah, Ares expands the selection of support powers you can use, with some creativity and coding skills, you should be able to expand it even more.
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 10:15 am Post subject:
Depending on what kind of gameplay you want, you may prefer TW over RA3. Things like respawning resources ala Tiberium are things that make TW superior over RA3. And afaik RA3's modding options are more limited that TW's. QUICK_EDIT
@Dutchygamer: True, though the upcoming/dead mod Tiberium that is using the RA3 engine seems to be adding the regenerating resources system into the RA3 engine. I guess when there's a will there's a way.
TW sounds like a better option, IMO. Support powers need cash in order to be employed, just like in TW; even though it's a pretty old game the engine seems to be holding up pretty well (aging gracefully perhaps?); though I don't have an upgrade system in Chaos Theory, I might actually consider adding upgrades for the mod; units can have abilities - and more than one ability, but atm each unit will just have one ability, cuz that seems fair.
So yeah. I guess if I do decide to make a mod, it'd be on TW. Kewl.
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 12:56 pm Post subject:
Best is to edit your previous post. Unless there is a huge amount of time between posts (like several weeks/months), double-posting is frowned upon QUICK_EDIT
Or if someone posts after my last post, hahaha. That works I guess.
UPDATE:
Here's a bit of backstory to Chaos Theory. The mod will be made up of three Acts, each released separately (much like how MO does it; the other Acts would be like expansion packs). Act I is titled "A Meeting of Minds" and will establish the rise of the Psychic Legion led by Alastor as he goes on his warpath to conquer the world.
The Allies and Soviets will be working together to combat this new threat, but despite being signatories to the new UN World Accords after the Psychic Dominator Disaster was averted and Yuri incarcerated in a top secret location only known to the Allies (some speculate that Yuri's prison is located in Siberia, under the noses of even the KGB), both sides still view each other with doubtful eyes. The possibility of betrayal is not ignored, and both sides are prepared to deal with each other should the tables be turned against them, even if they have to face the Legion separately as mortal enemies once again.
The game will kick off after the Legion's successful annexation of St. Petersburg, where Alastor's forces drove back the Red Army and killed the Hero of the Soviet Union, a.k.a. the player character in RA2 and YR (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~!!!). Act I will begin with the Soviet campaign as Romanov sends out a relatively untested but promising young Commander to deal with Alastor's advancing armies and help the Allies retake Europe. Kinda reminds you of WW2, eh?
The next campaign puts you in the shoes of the Allied Commander who defeated Yuri in the Battle of the Antarctic (yep, also the player character in the RA2/YR campaign) and must fend off Alastor's relentless armies encroaching on US soil as well as other countries worldwide. Einstein also makes his comeback with the help of his fellow scientists at the Millenia Institute.
Finally, Act I will end with the Legion campaign where you play Alastor's chosen champion to crush all resistance and find out where his master Yuri is incarcerated. Things will get a whole lot crazy after that; Act II will be rather over-the-top, that I can guarantee.
So yeah, more to come! stoked to see this getting fleshed out!
UPDATE 2:
The documents have been updated with some minor changes.
UPDATE 3:
I'll keep posting here with anything I feel ought to be shared. In the meantime, I'm currently considering starting small with a mod for YR some time in the future. Will take some time to learn the basics of modding and modelling and the like. _________________ Red Alert 2: Chaos Theory - Ideas in progress - Feedback appreciated! QUICK_EDIT
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RA2: Chaos Theory - Mod Ideas for your perusal
