Using your numbers as the intended standards would still put it at above RA2 x2. I'm not sure what you mean by infantry problem, it would be helpful if you elaborate on that.
I don't think the standard is a question of format which is easily generated from the base image anyway, but the creation of high quality graphics which is more time consuming. I'm only arguing that a standard for tile sizes would be helpful for these mods that are essentially HD versions of "base" OpenRA mods, of which this is one, Rewire is the other, and I'm working on a red alert one.
I think that will make those mods more accessible to other modders who might want to either help with development, or even mod them at some point, not to mention it would allow asset sharing and moving between them more easily, which is possible since all these are open source mods, and I'm assuming everyone will release their files at some point during/after development.
The fact that there is a 2x zoom, to me at least, makes the case more for RA2 x2, as even if you want the more zoomed out look, you can have more pixel density zoomed in.
One of the main reasons I'm on the fence here is that Gangster already has alot of excellent terrain work done at TSx2, which could just make the case for being the standard by default.
I would love to hear more opinions on this though. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:37 pm Post subject:
TS infantry is borderline problematic in terms of visibility in big screens as some of Astor'sCD screenshots prove. However only the infantry has that issue and this is already fine with RA2 infantry size. And these are with a bigger resolution than the aforementioned 1920x1080.
Having the RA2x2 cell size... it feels like 640x480 to me already. That sounds like running on an assumption that everything's being played in fullscreen. In regards to asset sharing, voxels are already fine since OpenRA supports the Scale property in the VXL header - which did nothing in the WW games - so only sprites are the problem. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
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Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
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WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
I would skip concrete completely, it only slows down gameplay.
@Graion: You are correct. I am assuming most people are running at full screen at 1920x1080. I'm assuming people running in windowed mode or higher screen resolution are a minority, even though soon, probably by the time these mods see the light of day, higher screen resolutions will be more common.
I think it's also worth considering that scaling graphics down is much easier than scaling them up. Having cells at RA2x2 scale would also allow for larger vehicles, as I mentioned.
I would love hear DonutArnold's take on this since it's his thread and he's the one making the graphics. Though I feel this discussion should move to another forum at this point. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Apr 2003 Location: Somewhere in Germany
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:09 pm Post subject:
Graion Dilach wrote:
Merophage wrote:
2x YR size is still less that what you would get if you simply divide today's standard of 1920x1080 by that.
Wouldn't call 1920x1080 the standard, because laptop gaming also gained ground and those usually don't have bigger screens than 1600x900.
On a related note, since a couple of days ago I'm now using VSR on my Radeon 7790 to upscale the resolution of my 27" 1080p screen to 2560x1440, and it works so much better than expected that I'll likely keep it that way for good.
For any notebook users with lower resolutions but recent-enough gfx hardware from AMD or NV (not sure if Intel has something comparable yet), using VSR/DSR to upscale to 1080p might be an option. Might be too taxing for 3D games, but for OpenRA it shouldn't be a problem, performance-wise. QUICK_EDIT
The resolution discussion is related so I'm keeping the discussion here, but in the future if this project gets its own sub-forum then I'll create a new thread about resolution/scale there.
Isn't the main reason for WW to use the big infantry in RA2 that it's easier gameplay wise? If they were smaller they would have been harder to recognize and select, right?
However, I'd like to try using the same infantry scale as for RW which is RA2 scale. If that causes issues with selecting and recognizing then using TSx2 scale for them would be an option.
I'm currently using a 27" monitor with 2560x1440 resolution and I don't see any problem working with TSx2 on this monitor. And about vehicles, I dislike utterly huge vehicles, so that's why I'd prefer TSx2 scale instead of having RA2 x2 scale with bigger vehicles. I bet RA2 x2 would look really nice with big resolution like 2560x1440 or bigger because they'd provide so much details, but I believe that majority doesn't have such monitors yet and that TSx2 would achieve the best gameplay experience.
I agree that while majority of HD mods are TSx2 I believe that working with that scale would provide the best interchange of assets between mods. Also, I'm planning on making an indie game project with TSx2 scale, so that'd support the plan using the TSx2 scale even more (well it's easier for me ).
So far there's two feedback about concrete slab that it's a gameplay slower. I agree with those two and my opinion about them that if you forget to place them you need to constantly fix your buildings and that's annoying. Before ditching it, I'd like to try how it'd work with bigger foundation, small one being 3x3 instead of 2x2 and bigger one 4x4 instead of 3x3, or even bigger than stated.
I'm quite amazed with the voxel render engine OpenRA is using. The quality is really nice and soft, and the rotation is really smooth. Well, since the current plan is not to use slopes, which would be better for vehicles, VXLs or SHPs? QUICK_EDIT
I'm quite amazed with the voxel render engine OpenRA is using. The quality is really nice and soft, and the rotation is really smooth. Well, since the current plan is not to use slopes, which would be better for vehicles, VXLs or SHPs?
I strongly advise against making any choices based on the current state of the OpenRA voxel renderer. It is incomplete, and while it looks pretty it behaves incorrectly in some important cases and has unacceptable performance. It needs to be rewritten before we release our TS mod, and the target for that will be for only "at least as good" as TS (performance and correctness trump pretty lighting). QUICK_EDIT
Here's a rough sketch of the different cell size/scales. I think having visual aid will help us close in on the right scale.
The image "TileTest_96x48-3.6.png" is what You and Rewise use more or less, that's a tile size of 96x48px, with the cell being about 3.6mx3.6m, this gives you RA2 size infantry.
The image "TileTest_128x64-3.6.png" is the most visually appealing to me, and is more consistent with modern games, that's a tile size of 128x64px, with the cell being about 3.6mx3.6m. This gives you larger than RA2 size infantry.
The image "TileTest_128x64-4.8.png" is the most flexible in my opinion, much more realistic scale that's a tile size of 128x64px, with the cell being about 4.8mx4.8m, You can see though even at this scale, the largere land units are taking u 2x1 cells. So they'll have to be scaled creatively. This gives you larger RA2 size infantry.
I haven't considered anything that gives TS size infantry, but that probably would be 96x48px at 3.8mx4.8m. But that would make the infantry too small in my opinion. Please, let me know your thoughts, and by all means share if you have your own experiments with scale. Last edited by Merophage on Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Why are you so bothered by scale? You'll never be able to get accurate spacing and unit scales with an occupied cell based system. Just pick something that makes sense and deal with fractional cell usage, or make your large units smaller. _________________ http://www.moddb.com/mods/scorched-earth-ra2-mod-with-smart-ai QUICK_EDIT
128x64 would only work if you are playing at 4k resolution IMO. If not you wouldn't be able to fit a lot onto the screen, it would be like playing TS at 480x360.
I'm considering using the RA2 sized 60x30 or 100x50 for my own OpenRA project BTW. _________________
Merophage's question matters because -nowadays- many players have monitors with (at least) a 1920x1080 resolution.
It will be interesting to address this issue again when these options get implemented into OpenRA.
It's hard to decide which "unit scale" to choose but TileTest_96x48-3.6.png looks good to me. QUICK_EDIT
Well it seems we have a consensus for 96x48. I'm not advocating a uniform real world scale accross the board of course, just merely finding a midpoint where one would upsize the smaller units and downsize the larger ones and still get a consistent look.
That being said, here is one last image, this is 96x48 at 4.8m, but I've added three objects at the top at the next scale 96x48 at 3.6m. I do believe having those kind of standard will greatly increase the chances of mod asset sharing.
Edit: I've removed all images since the discussion is closed. This thread is about DonutArnold's mod. Last edited by Merophage on Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:25 pm Post subject:
I've just recently reread to the contents of this topic errr... few minutes ago... which makes me wonder about one thing, considering that this project is pretty much active:
Quote:
but in the future if this project gets its own sub-forum then I'll create a new thread about resolution/scale there.
What prevents that from happening in PPM? QUICK_EDIT
So you settled for 60x30? Wasn't 96x48 planned?
Anyway, this looks extremely nice.
I like how you managed to keep the nostalgic touch in this much higher resolution and more detailed version. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
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I bet RA2 x2 would look really nice with big resolution like 2560x1440 or bigger because they'd provide so much details, but I believe that majority doesn't have such monitors yet and that TSx2 would achieve the best gameplay experience.
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