Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject:
Balancing the EMP Cannon
The EMP cannon is really giving me a headache. I never really played TS online but for a cost of 1000, short reload time of 4.5 mins, and massive range of 40 the EMP cannon just seems ridiculously good. How would you have any chance of making a ground based attack without spreading your forces miles apart from each other? Also its tech level used to be 6? You don't even have orca bombers, banshees, stealth tanks or devil's tongues to take it out with? What are your options, infantry?
I've nerfed the cannon quite alot, but I'm not sure if too much. The changes I've made for it atm are:
- Reload time doubled from 4.5 mins to 9 mins.
- Price increased from 1000 to 1500.
- Tech level increased by 2. GDI has Orca Bombers, Nod subterranean and stealth vehicles at this point.
- EMP area of effect reduced from 11 to 9. Should help at least a little to avoid getting your entire army disabled. And makes it harder to hit with it.
- Range decreased from 40 to 25. It can't shoot across half the map now, but still easily outranges artillery.
With these changes would you still consider buying one? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I don't think I buy them even in vanilla TS/FS, except in the last missions of FS.
The range limit always meant that most of the targets I wanted were off limits, which annoyed me. However, as a defensive SW, I guess that it does need a limit.
The recharge time always seemed high to me, and enemies didn't even need to time their attacks very well to overwhelm it before it could fire.
As for the area of effect, I think that was the only thing about the EMP cannon that I liked - if used, it did actually power down a decent chunk of an attacking force.
In my most recent foray into the rules, I eventually increased the range to 45 (which made it much more useful) and decreased the reload time to 3 minutes. I think I may have increased the price slightly, too.
I also duplicated the EMP cannon as an AI only defence structure, so that the AI would build them - it wasn't actually a SW for them, but the ROF made it pretty convincing, imo. (edit: thanks to Morpher for that hint, as this was added at the same time that he proposed the AI addition of the cannon for Nod in TO). Last edited by Orac on Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Guess I view EMP Cannon more as a "backup" kind of defence thing. Like you let it reload and keep it ready, and only use it if the enemy makes a large ground based attack. The enemy could have alot of titans / disruptors but would either be forced to spread them apart or take out the EMP Cannon before attacking. Even if you caught 4-5 units in EMP and then attack their attack force head on, that could make a large difference.
That AI version of EMP sounds clever. You could even give it a large MinimumRange so they wouldn't disable their own base. It might be too easy to make them waste it by going in with 1 unit though, don't think there would be any way to make them use it in an intelligent way. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 28 Apr 2009 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:29 am Post subject:
I actually reckon you should get rid of it. I personally never use it because of it's range. Maybe convert it into another super weapon like and ion storm for the forgotten if they dont already have a SW? _________________ Beta Tester for Mental Omega 3.0
eh if you're gonna remove it, do something other than an ion storm or meteors please. Come on, green people summoning thunder storms or somehow displacing meteors from space so that they strike the earth at JUST the right time? _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
I don't like EMP cannons. Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf...
Hey SuperJoe, EMP cannons definetly do not need a nerf. They need a boost if anything, because right now there is little incentive to get one. The range limit and the micromanagement just make it a nuisance. Everything you are proposing would make the cannon about 10% as useful as it was before.
What do I suggest? Lower the ROF and increase the range so it has more uses in battle. THEN you have a good reason the increase the price. All in all what Orac suggested was good.
I know, MT. I just wish someone would do a Mass Driver in TS.
Mass drivers are cool.
But this post would be basically unnecessary, as I have already summed up my own thoughts on the EMP cannon, so I'll add some other thoughts.
Seeing as the EMP cannon is a super weapon, I think it shouldn't have such a restrictive range.
On the other hand, if the EMP cannon was a defence structure instead then it should definitely have a slow rate of fire and a smaller spread. Such a defence might have problems when targeting enemy units which are nearby your own units, and might add to player casualties when your own units are disarmed by your defences. QUICK_EDIT
Why is the poor old EMP cannon getting no love? Like I mentioned before, I based the changes on it being purely a defensive structure instead of a superweapon. In multiplayer people (and my modified AI) often attack in large groups, say a Nod player has 10 flame tanks, 10 grinders and a subterranean APC with a cyborg commando and engineers. Even with this many units he will not be able to attack you full force if you have even a single EMP cannon in your base. He will either have to find a way to take it or power plants out, spread his forces all over, or come in with smaller waves. The last 2 options will have already reduced the threat, so the EMP cannon has been used passively. The situation is even worse for GDI since their units are slow and can't come from under the ground. You just EMP his incoming units and use artillery / aircraft to bomb them out. Or EMP his anti-air units, then fly in with aircraft.
But I'll still try to balance it, maybe I did go bit overboard with the nerfing. But overall I've nerfed all the EMP based weapons in my mod, like the GDI mobile EMP. That thing used to cost 1000 (bit over a single titan) and have 800 armor, there was absolutely no cost-effective way of stopping it from disabling your forces or base. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 28 Apr 2009 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:15 am Post subject:
I reckon give it infinite range. Could become a VERY deadly super weapon. Maybe decrease EMP time though? Nerf Mobile EMP, most people dont use purely because they knocked out their own forces. _________________ Beta Tester for Mental Omega 3.0
Joined: 28 Apr 2009 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:56 am Post subject:
I'm just not a fan of it being a super weapon. Perhaps turn the EMP cannon into a standard base defence weapon but give it ammo with a very long reload time. You will know it's ready to fire when the ammo blip appears next to it and make it that it can't auto fire. _________________ Beta Tester for Mental Omega 3.0
The whole superweapon status makes it unique though and seperates GDI and Nod further from Forgotten. They have all these high tech buildings and special abilities which the Forgotten lack. Btw, the Forgotten do have a "superweapon", the Ion Storm Missile Launcher, but it works bit differently. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
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Balancing the EMP Cannon
Like I mentioned before, I based the changes on it being purely a defensive structure instead of a superweapon. In multiplayer people (and my modified AI) often attack in large groups, say a Nod player has 10 flame tanks, 10 grinders and a subterranean APC with a cyborg commando and engineers. Even with this many units he will not be able to attack you full force if you have even a single EMP cannon in your base. He will either have to find a way to take it or power plants out, spread his forces all over, or come in with smaller waves. The last 2 options will have already reduced the threat, so the EMP cannon has been used passively. The situation is even worse for GDI since their units are slow and can't come from under the ground. You just EMP his incoming units and use artillery / aircraft to bomb them out. Or EMP his anti-air units, then fly in with aircraft.
