I think let carnius decide. I don't really mind if one faction doesn't have an epic unit. If KW has taught me anything, it's that Epics are just expensive, slow lumbering stuff which can be taken out by adequate amounts of aerial bombardment. Even as a player of Essence I rarely used the MK II except for novelty purposes (eg. cleaning up the remnants of enemy base). _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
The mention of the cyborg commando qualifying as the epic unit isn't really an exaggeration. When it was first released in 1.3 it was a mass killer, taking only 2-3 shots to destroy even structures. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
There's a difference between a Hero unit and an Epic unit. EA coughed up the Epic unit business _________________ Please, I DON'T read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
I thought that Cyborg Commando could be Nod epic unit, but it seems that make it almost equal to Mammoth MKII in firepower was unfortunate decision and maybe even inapropriate due its size. Cyborg commando will be still dangerous unit but not as OP as in previous version.
But i certainly dislike Redeemer as nod Epic, such big walker just doesnt fit to Nod and IMHO its Rage generator a bit screwed game.
Nod needs something else, something stealthy, sneaky. Maybe something like super stealth tank, not so though as mammoth mk II but stealth and with some devastating weapon.
Its just an idea, i believe there is more options how to do balanced gameplay even without any nod epic unit. But it could be interesting. QUICK_EDIT
Problem is, Epic Units are associated traditionally with big stuff. A huge unit can't be stealthy or sneaky.
Plus having the Cyborg Commando acting like a second hero unit to me is enough and Nod doesn't really need an epic. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Hey!
It looks awesome. Im not certain if this looks NOD like. But very good graphic.
In TSF Nod had a subterrain Mobile HQ (headquater). I know it was destoyed by the GDI, but as an epic unit i would prefer that one:
A Subterrain Unit or a tank (no mech, because they belong to GDI {of course a mech looks cool}) Nod is more based on terran units like stealth tanks or flame tanks. Something evil
I thought of a unit with more secondary weaponpower like a deployable artillery or a kind of mobile temple of NOD (no Nuke, but ... something else) The unit hasn't to be huge, instead i would say as tall as the MCV would be good. QUICK_EDIT
Thanks for Offering, if you whant i have one for u. I have been working also on it but i only draw per hand, cause i hve no good graphic program on my pc.
It is a kind of deployable epic Unit, it has the style of a temple of nod combined with weapon turrent.
Check it out: ( I am still uncertain how it should look when it is in movement mode
I personally dislike the idea of Nod having an epic unit, because they have never had anything large in their army, with the exception of their superweapons.
I don't think Nod needs an epic unit. I think the Temple of Nod should be more of an epic structure. It is, afterall, supposed to be the command centre of Nod. I'd rather Nod had more, better and interesting super powers than a single unit. I mean, a Nuke should be more powerful than an Ion Cannon, IMO. An Ion Cannon I always considered more of a surgical strike weapon, to knock out a building, where as a Nuke would be something to really panick over. _________________ If there is a problem on the forums, PM me. QUICK_EDIT
I don't want to ake the nuke away from game, i said for this epic unit there shoud be another kind of attack. I also enjoy to clear an enemy base with the nod superweapon.
Nod has so many unique things, like the hand of nod, or the obelisc of light, so why don't put another special unit. In TSF there were the mobile sealth genrator, (wich carnius already made in his mod v1.4) or onthe side of gdi the moile warfactory.
I like the idea of deployable units, because in gameplay its awesome when u place a rig next to your tanks and repair them. or to stealth them during your attack.
But what do u think of the firestormwall?? I mean for GDI faction it would be a good def against a nod super artillery _________________ The Tacitus will turn out the truth of the prophecy QUICK_EDIT
that concept is not drawn by you, AFAIK it's an original TS concept by evil gary
No its not drawn by me, but i catched up the idea to make a redesign of it which i have allready done jet, but at the moment i have only a few hand drawings of it and i won't show the pics jet. Because someone can copy my idea. _________________ The Tacitus will turn out the truth of the prophecy QUICK_EDIT
Problem is, Epic Units are associated traditionally with big stuff. A huge unit can't be stealthy or sneaky.
Plus having the Cyborg Commando acting like a second hero unit to me is enough and Nod doesn't really need an epic.
I agree i just play with idea create something new for nod. I dont insist on epic unit. Huge big unit feels inapropriate for nod combat style anyway.
My idea is sort of unique stealth tank prototype with lethal weaponry, not so big to be in contradictory with his stealthy nature. It could be interesting, but as you say Cyborg Commando is quite enough.
To GrandMoffDima:
Im aware of this concept of nod crawler, its not bad idea for nod epic, but its a bit too big and walker, not exactly what im looking for, but i wish this made in to KW as nod epic, its more nod than redeemer.
Muldrake wrote:
I don't think Nod needs an epic unit. I think the Temple of Nod should be more of an epic structure. It is, afterall, supposed to be the command centre of Nod. I'd rather Nod had more, better and interesting super powers than a single unit. I mean, a Nuke should be more powerful than an Ion Cannon, IMO. An Ion Cannon I always considered more of a surgical strike weapon, to knock out a building, where as a Nuke would be something to really panick over.
I agree with this too. Nuke should be more devastating than ion cannon, but i also like stronger ion cannon, remember fmv from TD when it destroys entire nod forward base. Seen this i regret in game ion cannon can destroys only one building. Anyway rebalance nuke and ion cannon could be tough one, but i was thinking about add to temple of nod another secondary ability, something like network hack which show you enemy tech structures. Also its based on nod victory fmv inn TD where is seen nod hackers inside nod temple.
Tacitus wrote:
Thanks for Offering, if you whant i have one for u. I have been working also on it but i only draw per hand, cause i hve no good graphic program on my pc.
It is a kind of deployable epic Unit, it has the style of a temple of nod combined with weapon turrent.
Im confused, this not your drawing, but original westwood concept for one of their canceled games. I thing this suppose to be nod tech structure, anyway its not suitable for epic unit of any sort. QUICK_EDIT
I know its not my graphic i loaded up, it is the original one. I dont want to post my handdrawings jet, because someone could take my idea, but when i have finished them i'll show u.
The idea with the steath unit sounds cool, make it creepy and cute. Creepy for the enemy and cute for you
Like the stalth tank: covered while moving and uncovers before it fires _________________ The Tacitus will turn out the truth of the prophecy QUICK_EDIT
Nod has so many unique things, like the hand of nod, or the obelisc of light, so why don't put another special unit. In TSF there were the mobile sealth genrator, (wich carnius already made in his mod v1.4) or onthe side of gdi the moile warfactory.
The mobile War Factory was available to both GDI and Nod actually. Nod's version was called the Fist of Nod. In fact if Nod were to have an epic I wouldn't mind something like the Fist of Nod, i.e. an epic unit that plays more of a support role than assault role. A giant hulking vehicle blasting flames and laser beams... it just ain't Nod. In fact to my personal opinion it ain't even human... huge oversized warmachines have always been more of an alien thing to me :p
I'm not really a fan of the whole "let's just give 'em one more unit for the sake of having more units" thing. In fact quite a long time ago I already mentioned Essence being very saturated with a lot of units already, which leads to some overlap (eg. Cobra and Beam Cannon are both long range attackers). _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
In fact if Nod were to have an epic I wouldn't mind something like the Fist of Nod, i.e. an epic unit that plays more of a support role than assault role.
That sounds verry interesting, support, i have never been thinking of a unique support unit that could be a really working thing _________________ The Tacitus will turn out the truth of the prophecy QUICK_EDIT
the beam cannon is quite ugly and deserves to be shreddet, go with the cobra
I may have mentioned that to Carnius before too, since every unit removed is one icon space freed up (hopefully for a coller unit). However he decided on remodelling the Beam Cannon rather than removing it. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Potential ideas I can think of for an ICBM launcher as an epic:
- Make it mobile, but deploying into a fixed position, like the Rig. It shouldn't be like the Scud Launcher in Generals.
- It's missile should be an ability with cooldown, not an attack. That way you have a clear timer to see how soon till next launch.
- It'd be slow, but with almost infinite range allowing you to strike nearly anywhere not under fog of war
- Unlike other epics, it should be defenceless. With its range you could camp it in your base or in an expansion base anyway.
- Last but not least, Nod shouldn't even have it in the first place. Why? Imagine a nuke + vapour bomb + catalyst missile + ICBM combo. More importantly imagine you cloak it making it near-impossible for the enemy to pinpoint... _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Then ICBM should be a normal launcher unit, I think. _________________ Welcome to the unit, I´ll see you around.
Tiberian Sun 2.05:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/tiberian-sun-205 QUICK_EDIT
How about the Montauk as an epic unit. I also like the idea of the support role Valdez mentioned.
So my idea would be a Subterranean moving Montauk that
-can carry up to 2 or 3 vehicles (if possible)
-can deploy into a hand of nod like building to produce infantry near the enemy
The design of the Montauk was also like a train, which could be used to make the rear "waggon" for the vehicle transport, while the front part would be the deploying hand of nod part.
Maybe you can even make the Montauk's front being a second exit point for your warfactory. So your new produced vehicles don't exit the warfactory but instead the montauk. This would give some nice sneaky tactics, since you can move the Montauk unseen to any point of the map.
It could be explained, that the Montauk creates a tunnel network in the underground which is connected with the warfactory. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Then ICBM should be a normal launcher unit, I think.
If that's the case, it'd feel rather plain, essentially not all that different from the Specter since they're both units with long-range high-damage weapons... You'd might as well have a "super-artillery" that fires super shells...
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
How about the Montauk as an epic unit. I also like the idea of the support role Valdez mentioned.
So my idea would be a Subterranean moving Montauk that
-can carry up to 2 or 3 vehicles (if possible)
-can deploy into a hand of nod like building to produce infantry near the enemy
The design of the Montauk was also like a train, which could be used to make the rear "waggon" for the vehicle transport, while the front part would be the deploying hand of nod part.
Maybe you can even make the Montauk's front being a second exit point for your warfactory. So your new produced vehicles don't exit the warfactory but instead the montauk. This would give some nice sneaky tactics, since you can move the Montauk unseen to any point of the map.
It could be explained, that the Montauk creates a tunnel network in the underground which is connected with the warfactory.
Subterranean might be tricky if the design is based on the TS Montauk since the Montauk was never a tunneling unit (it just travelled like a train).
The tunnel logic might be tricky and I doubt it'd codable as far as a link to war factories are concerned because bear this in mind, there is no evidence of coding in C&C 3 for a unit built at 1 building to emerge from another building. As nice as it may be to be creative, awareness of what can or cannot be done is also important.
IMO for simplicity sake the unit shouldn't burrow or open tunnel networks. it should simply be able to deploy into a structure that can field light units, meaning its build queue should essentially be all infantry plus perhaps the bike and buggy.
Since I assume the Nod epic won't be very huge, it'd be better if tanks or other big units aren't built there. Weapon-wise, a top-mounted missile launcher should suffice (I wouldnt say lasers since Nod has tons of those already). _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Location: National Reference Laboratory for IPNV
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject:
About the "Montauk", as an alternatively exit to a warfactory. I guess it should be possible to add it, and make it act like the capturable subway structure(or whatever the actual name is). Making the "Montauk" deploy into an exit and make a building in your base act like the entry (probably the same building that builds the "Montauk"). QUICK_EDIT
Lin Kuei Ominae, why don't you help them by making your great epic Scorpion available for them?
You should have a model of it, too.
If they want it, i would convert the unit for them.
Though it has a quite low quality and some new textures are necessary.
I'm also not sure if the glowing tail charge up anim is actually possible to implement. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
About the "Montauk", as an alternatively exit to a warfactory. I guess it should be possible to add it, and make it act like the capturable subway structure(or whatever the actual name is). Making the "Montauk" deploy into an exit and make a building in your base act like the entry (probably the same building that builds the "Montauk").
It'd work both ways since for the subway, all nodes act as both entrances and exits. Ditto for the Wormhole. In fact one minor reason I'm not so keen on this tunnel idea is because it's too wormhole-like plus it would give Nod a full fledged tunnel system superior to the civilian subway, meaning Nod players'd likely never need to capture Subways. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
But you don't have the Montauk right at the beginning like the civil subway. So i think it would be quite well balanced for an epic support unit which is that late available in a mission. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
is it possible (both engine-wise and sense/graphic-wise) to have the nod epic unit be an elite squad of advanced attack bikes and raider buggies? not the same units, but with slightly changed models, and faster with heavier firepower (great for hit and run attacks). it could have a secondary power of a localized EMP weapon. (one that could be aimed). QUICK_EDIT
squad mechanics applied to vehicles = too troublesome, likely gonna create pathfinding issues.
Plus a squad of light vehicles would die in record time. It's really not all that different from sending in 5 raider buggies at an enemy. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
I agree with Valdez; because a group of bikes have never a chance against the MK II or the Scrin Conqueror.
The idea with the mech for the nod epic comes from the mission in TSF were you have to defeat CABAL. This mech was huge, but it doesn't fit to the concept of nod.
Further i would prefer some support units like two new mobile construction buildings (able to be unpacked like the RIG from GDI), e.g. a hand of nod for infantary, a fist of nod (mobile warfactory), and an airfield (with ability of stealth).
With those you can build a mobile base, excellent for attacks from behind, or for irritating the enemy. (They should be buildable, when you have one of these buildings + the tech center; a warfactory, a hand of nod or an airfield)
Below i post you an example for how it could look:
(They drawings are not mine, but i put them together and wrote some suggestions and ideas)
Concept.JPG
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_________________ The Tacitus will turn out the truth of the prophecy QUICK_EDIT
Some interesting ideas sparks here over time. I like the idea that instead of nod epic unit filed with weapons nod got something with support role only, like weaponless fist of nod, maybe with subterrain ability or stealth.
I did some testing with my idea of unique super stealth tank (enlarged original flame tank with plasma canons, just for testing pourpose) and it feels like too much. Nod got plenty of units already, more than any other faction. Its already over saturated with units and i dont want to make it even worse. In fact nod really dont need anything epic besides Cyborg Commando. Its much more interesting balance nod faction different way than Gdi and Scrin. I will pursue this way until i realize i cant balance nod without involving huge lumbering epic unit, which i hope never came. QUICK_EDIT
In my mind, the only problem would be if the units came out of the mobile warfactory properly and not through the side walls. It is the same problem wich the dropzone area has, because it is too small the dropship couldn't land on it in the right angle.
Do you have a solution to this problem _________________ The Tacitus will turn out the truth of the prophecy QUICK_EDIT
...a bigger dropship landing zone? The current one is hideously undersized anyway... actually the real problem lies with the MK II... it's so big that dropships just aren't really meant to carry that sort of thing... _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
1)Since GDI's epic is more offensive and Scrin's is more of a support I was thinking maybe give nod something defensive maybe a building with a kind of redeemer-like shotgun obelisk or possibly an emp mine layer for trap setting all while being cloaked with a mobile cloaking field.
2) Take the temple of nod and give it an "uproot" ability turing it into a mobile scorpion with fair offensive and high armor all the while keeping all the things that make it a temple of nod with added mine laying possibly
3) A subterrian network building, kinda like the zerg's nydus system or the subway system, but make only the entrances buildable with the exits a special ability withing any revealed radius.
Could have a neat drill animation with chunks of rock flying everywhere with the end exit being a hand of nod kinda like the TS build up, where it comes up and grabs the ground.
Joined: 21 Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere in the great nothingness
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:28 am Post subject:
But people you forget CABAL!Cabal was the end-boss of TS:FS,and due the fact its defeated,Kane could construct another one loyal to the Brotherhood.To ensure his loyalty Kane would cut its combat power in half,so that he cant rebel.Just think about the Redeemer in Kanes Wrath,Cabal MkII battling Mammoth MkII would that not be fine
Cabal would have two big obelisk lasers against ground units,Sam site on his top,flame thrower against infantry nearby(for example),it would have lots of hp for tanking GDI's hordes.Yes i agree to NOD's battle doctrine based on flexibility but when GDI comes in really mass numbers NOD is simply defeated because has no strong units that will stay at the front and tank the incoming GDI to create time to gather scattered over the map-operating covert troops for counteroffensive.
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Another idea for NOD epic:In the Red Alert 1 there was an unit called M.A.D.
This was an suicide unit,you drived it to the center of enemy base,clicked deploy,then it creates an massive earthquake destroying structures or damaging heavily them.How could this be adapted to Tiberian Universe:Nod uses Tiberianbased technology,also it could work so:The Mad would interact somehow(use your brain,lol)with the underground tiberium-ledge,causing it to break the surface and damage everything(not only structures) above the surface where it is detonated.It would be interesting or so not?
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One more idea:
If youre serious about "NOD shouldnt have epic!" then give an structure speeding up construction times of vehicle and aircraft such as the Industrial Powerplant of Soviets in RA2. QUICK_EDIT
One more idea:
If youre serious about "NOD shouldnt have epic!" then give an structure speeding up construction times of vehicle and aircraft such as the Industrial Powerplant of Soviets in RA2.
Frankly I'd prefer this as an upgrade rather than a separate building. This game has tons of buildings already. Each faction has 3 teching structures for crying out loud... _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 21 Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere in the great nothingness
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:47 am Post subject:
Had such an idea,give nod an support power calling an Suicide drone(The flying one from TS),make it big so it deals area damage.I camed there so:The drone was automatic,had an targeting priority sistem,it landed ever on critical units or buildings,when mammoth mk2 or conqueror is in the area it will automatically go land on them cause its targeting system(dont ask:"and when both of them are on the battlefield?") _________________ QUICK_EDIT
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Nod Epic
Im not certain if this looks NOD like. But very good graphic. 
But what do u think of the firestormwall?? I mean for GDI faction it would be a good def against a nod super artillery
